I want to invite discussion regarding the POSSIBILITY of changing the practice times / order for the programs for the coming Spring Season. The purpose of this is solely to utilize our coaching and equipment assets to their full potential. I know that there will be people for whom any change would be inconvenient, I ask them to keep in mind that the past schedule was inconvenient for others. That being said - none of this is being considered for the sake of anyone's convenience, it is purely for the purpose of exploring if there is a better way forward.
Why Bother?
The current schedule taxes our physical resources to the limit. Varsity athletes expect (and have earned the right) to use the best equipment in the boathouse. Despite our best efforts to share the equipment fairly, having both programs (boys and girls) on the water at the same time taxes these resources. That being said - some of the equipment is weight (and as such program) specific, though in reality the overall demand creates more problems than the actual physical limitations.
Coaching resources are challenged here too. Having both varsity programs at the same time limits my ability as Head Coach to spend quality time with both programs. Similarly, novice rowers require a smaller rower:coach ratio, and as such having all the novices at the same time affects our ability to keep that ratio low.
What should not be lost in the discussion, is the value of the camaraderie between the boys and girls, and the social value of that interaction. Having them train at different times will limit their exposure to each other and possibly erode their sense of team.
It is also understood that Varsity / JV rowers are more likely to have access to cars / carpooling and as such may find it easier to make it to the earlier practice than do the younger Novices.
What won't change:
We will still be splitting the youth program into 2 sessions. These sessions will likely run from 4:00pm - 6:00 pm and from 5:30pm to 7:30pm. Each program will run 2 hours and all rowers will get 90 minutes per day water time.
What will change:
We will not be offering a Learn to Row program during the competitive Spring program. We will make sure that our current rowers have our full attention and access to enough equipment. Besides, the cold weather is really not conducive to learning to row. We will offer a Learn to Row program that begins in mid May, and will be primarily targeted at Middle School. Athletes that have not rowed but are currently enrolled in our winter program, will be eligible to head straight into the Spring Competitive Program as Novices. Recreational rowing will only be considered when we know our Competitive Program numbers.
For discussion:
Option 1. Leave things as they have been. Varsity Boys and Girls train in the first session, Novices train in the second. JV rowers will be moved to where it makes sense numbers wise, but at this stage it looks like they would train with Varsity (regardless of which option we go with).
Option 2. All Girls session 1, all Boys session 2.
Option 3. All Boys session 1, all Girls session 2.
Option 4. Varsity Girls and Novice boys session 1, Varsity Boys and Novice Girls session 2.
Option 5. Varsity Boys and Novice Girls session 1. Varsity Girls and Novice Boys session 2.
So... now that you know the "whats and whys" of the discussion, I am interested in your opinion. Don't be shy, please let us know what you favor - and preferably why. Please limit yourself to discussing how this affects you, rather than commenting on the validity of others'.
I'm a varsity rower now and I feel that the schedule has been great so far. I know that many varsity rowers, including me, are seniors and junior and need to get home early for homework. Also, I agree that separating the group will make us lose the sense of team that I have built with these people for four years. Sure, sometimes there are issues with the program concerning who uses which boat. The bottom line is that the faster crew deserves the better equipment, even if it comes down to be between girls and boys. Furthermore, all crews, especially varsity, should be using separate boats. Usually, boys and girls events are back to back and they are unable to use the same boats. Overall i think it would be a bad idea to change practice times...
ReplyDeleteThanks for the feedback... keep it coming
ReplyDeleteI really think we should keep it as it is with Varsity first and Novice second. I feel, as a Varsity rower, that we have earned out right to the better equipment and a more convenient practice time.
ReplyDeleteThanks for writing. Keep in mind that we are exploring ways to make sure that the Varsity program gets the best of our resources, equipment and coaching - not having to share it at exactly the same time. Convenience is subjective, some rowers have to scramble to make the early start time, it precludes many athletes from talking to teachers after school - and some would like to get homework done before crew - rather than trying to accomplish it all afterward when they are exhausted.
ReplyDeleteI am a parent of a novice rower - hopefully soon to be JV - and we are pretty flexible re: practice times. My son enjoys the group he is rowing with and would probably be ok rowing with whatever group he is assigned to. My only thought is that there have been days in past sessions when he didn't get to go out on the water due to lack of equipment. Since it is so important to have water time, I would support any change that minimizes those occurrences. If a different schedule helps that problem then I say go for it!
ReplyDeletePerhaps a better idea would be to separate Varsity and JV. Except for the occasional lightweight boys/open weight girls conflict, the combined girls and boys program is fine. Problems come for JV after Varsity takes the best boats and they are left with everything else. Practices could be split like this:
ReplyDelete1) Session 1: Varsity Girls and Boys/ Novice Girls
Session 2: JV Girls and Boys/ Novice Boys
OR
2) Session 1: Varsity Girls and Boys/ Novice Boys
Session 2: JV Girls and Boys/ Novice Girls
In this case, Varsity and JV can use the top boats in each of their respective sessions.
The problem we have in the Spring is that we do not have access to the Iona and Fordham boats. This specifically reduces our access to mid and large size hulls. We lose a large number of Varsity boys in the Spring and as such most of the JV will row with Varsity. There are far too many Novice rowers (boys and girls) this Spring to row them in any combination with both varsity programs in one session.
ReplyDeleteThe choice is either:
All Varsity / All Novice
All Novice / All Varsity
1 Varsity and 1 Novice / 1 Varsity and 1 Novice.
I would be curious to read from parents of Novice Rowers of the challenges (if any), if they were moved to the first session. Is it easier to have kids come home first, then drive them to rowing - or would it just as simple to collect them from school and then bring them straight to practice?
ReplyDeleteDo any varsity Parents (and rowers) think that their athlete would get any homework done between school and rowing if their timetable was shifted to the second session? Or would this just be delaying the inevitable?
A parent of a varsity rower: Please leave it as it is. Everything the first rower said is true.
ReplyDelete--The seniors and juniors need that first practice: they have to get home early to do homework. Practice provides a much-needed break between sitting in school and sitting at home studying. End practice at 7:30, get home, shower, eat, and start homework at 9? No thanks! And no, that time between school and the second session would NOT be useful for homework.
--The camaraderie of the team is really important, and splitting up the varsity by gender will hurt that.
--Carpools are set and happy. Please let us keep them.
--Schedules will never be perfect for everybody. The varsity rowers have all had to deal with the less convenient second session in previous years. Now they've earned the earlier session. Let them keep it. Thanks!
I am a varsity rower and I think having the varsity boys and girls train in the first session is the best option. Boys can give the girls strong competition and the boys can refuse to let they girls beat them. Overall, having the fastest boats practicing at the same time creates a great competitive vibe. Also, having a later session for varsity would be highly unwanted because as a student-athlete going to practice after school is a great academic break. In terms of needing to see teachers after school, I have not had problems with that because I could be able to see them in the morning or some time during the day. Lastly, equipment conflicts can be resolved with the fastest crew deserving the best. We worked hard to earn it.
ReplyDeleteThanks!
When figuring out what the fastest crew is, I know some teams compare times from their varsity boats to the national or international record times. For example, take the open weight girls quad and the lightweight mens quad. I know there was a conflict in fall concerning who should use The Four Kings. We could compare both boats' 2k times from the same practice to the national record times for their events. Whichever is closer (percent-wise) would be allowed to use The Four Kings.
ReplyDeleteI am also a varsity rower, and I think we should keep the schedule the way it is! Ending practice at 7:30 is very late for the varsity athletes -- especially when students will be preparing for APs and SATs! Getting home, showering, eating dinner, then starting work at around 9 would not be a good schedule for the older athletes. Also, the boys and girls were already separated in the winter, and many of us miss our friends!
ReplyDeletethanks!
I’m the parent of a varsity rower. I’m not sure that I have a cogent opinion that counts on the very real camaraderie/coaching/equipment issues. My rower thinks that slicing the pie vertically instead of horizontally will just result in new issues while getting rid of some of the things which work very nicely as is at PCRA—namely the truly lovely co-ed espirit de corps. For many of the varsity athletes, rowing IS their primary social life. One suggestion might be to do a better job having the varsity rowers foster the ones coming up behind them by factoring in overall team-building activities and developing team awards for the varsity rowers who best and consistently demonstrate the mentoring, care and feeding of novice rowers.
ReplyDeleteFrom a purely parent point of view, I have my own concerns & observations.
Academic concerns lead the pack here. The older the student, the more intense the workload (APs, advanced calculus, science research, etc.). Beginning homework after an 8:00 dinner & shower is simply too late. I worry that students need a break after being on the go for 7-8 hours each day, so it's very possible that the needed down time right after school would result in little to no effective work getting done before a late practice.
For us, practice has been right after school for years; changing now would require new study habits, etc. right as school is ramping up in terms of both difficulty and workload.
Carpools have been established and are predicated upon leaving from school.
Older students are also more likely to have other evening commitments. The later practice time is neither an afterschool slot nor an evening slot, but falls rather awkwardly right in the middle, disrupting pre-exiting commitments (religious, rehearsals, SAT classes, etc.) which cannot easily be changed mid-year, not to mention several of my own evening commitments. For example, all evening meetings at our high school begin at 7:00 pm.
Obviously, whatever happens, we shall all adjust to it, but thanks very much for bringing the various issues to our attention and soliciting our opinions. Maybe going forward we'll all realize the myriad difficult decisions that go into fostering each rower's personal aspirations, the team's goals, and a winning season! Not so easy, I see. I think I'll just stick with my job: paying, driving, feeding, encouraging....
Traditional high school athletics occur directly after school and therefore, other activities often schedule evening commitments working around sports; graded and curricular band rehearsals come to mind, for example. High school varsity rowers training at 5:30-7:30 puts them at odds with their fellow varsity athletes at school, always having to explain why they will not be available.
ReplyDeleteMany of us in both sessions have already changed our schedules for extracurricular activities (piano, band, tutors, SAT/ACT courses, etc.) based on the fall times (getting out at 6:15) and it would be extremely difficult for some of us to move these times around for the spring because it isn't always only based on our schedules but on the availability of others as well.
ReplyDeleteI believe boys and girls should be separated. This is not for equipment use, but for equal time with the coaches. The winter season has been such a success so maybe it should stay this way. However I do feel the earlier the practice the better.
ReplyDeleteTo also comment on the success of the winter program, of the separation, I feel it is working very well. However, I believe it is not because of the separation of the boys and girls. Their improvements have been great because there is a separation of coaches. The alternating days with coaches are brilliant; it ensures full attention to each gender and allows each coach to monitor everyone’s progress. Perhaps this method could be employed in the spring.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to it, it is superior coaching and camaraderie that fosters a successful team. Not the equipment. That being said, it is widely understood that PCRA is in need of more boats and novice/JV rowers are just as entitled to be able to row as Varsity rowers (but the varsity have earned the right to superior equipment). Hopefully, our ergathon can remedy some of this. Should not enough boats be purchased and the schedule IS changed, the later sessions will still be susceptible less water time. Further, the combination of genders can also improve rowing techniques; the girls have lessons to learn from the boys, likewise, the boys have lessons to learn from the girls. Also conducive to a rower’s success in the future is, without a doubt, their education. The Varsity tends to have older members; attending an earlier practice is a perfect hiatus from academia where their grades are more closely monitored than the younger teammates. Most varsity rowers have found time after an intense practice in the past to complete their work and maintain a relatively positive disposition, why should this change? A separation of genders will discourage some rowers (though this should not affect their work ethic, it inevitably will). That point can certainly be disputed, but all in all, if it is a shortage in equipment that we are dealing with, having a varsity section row later will not change much and have the problems that the later program was already having.
I also feel that rowing is the epitome of dedication. These athletes have attended early-morning and weekend practices. They push themselves to the limit for inches. It is this constant pursuit of perfection that drives their mentality. During race season, I can say confidently that PCRA rowers would rather wake up at 5am to go to a regatta and wait 6 hours just to prove for less than 10 minutes how dedicated they are than spend a weekend at home.
In short, they have slim to none social lives outside of this insane sport we call Crew. To the untrained eye, we are a bunch of crazy kids who take pride in bloody hands and sore muscles, when in reality, it is the friendships made between the boys and girls that keep us from insanity.
Last line of last comment says it all.....
ReplyDeleteThank you for all the feedback, its great to make scheduling plans using collective wisdom. I want to re-iterate that the whole point of this exercise is to make sure that we are actually doing what is best for the club, not just doing what we used to do because we have fallen into that rhythm.
ReplyDeleteI have done my best to not comment on opinions, but it is important to clarify errors of fact.
For the proposed Spring Season, both session 1 and session 2 will be exactly the same length of time and will have exactly the same amount of time allotted on the water.
The only reason that there were a couple of days last season when we could not boat every novice rower was when we were dealing with extreme low tide events and were not prepared to risk damaging newer shells. We will not take on more rowers in a season than we can boat.
I do not favor one plan over another, I am merely exploring opportunities to make the program better. It is quite probable that we will leave things the way they are.
But... in a nutshell the following is worth being considered:
The water is nearly always spectacularly better in the second session than the first.
I can coach more Varsity athletes if they are separated than if they train at the same time.
The boys and girls could each have access to all of the best equipment, shells / oars / coxboxes rather than using it at the same time.
For the record I definitely see the value in the shared camaraderie of boys and girls joint sessions. It certainly does appear that from a car pool perspective, Varsity favors the earlier session. I have worked with a number of athletes that preferred getting in an hour of homework before practice - because they found when they got home, showered and ate all they wanted was bed!
Again, all I am exploring is... for the sake of the athletes... is there a better system? For many programs across the country, their answer is split Varsity or have them row second on better water.
I am interested in opinions from those we have not yet heard, and again - please refrain from criticizing other people's opinions and stick to the topic at hand.
As a parent I feel strongly that we should keep the schedule as is, for the many reasons stated by students and parents above. The second time slot is a less desirable one since it is difficult for most students to settle down to homework immediately after school, row and then start homework again at 8pm. As 11th and 12th graders, varsity rowers have greater academic demands on their time, both with classwork and standardized test preparation. They need to be able row straight after school and then sit down to do work. Schedules for other activities, eg piano lessons or tutors, are set in September, and changing these mid year is difficult. In addition, all the varsity rowers have already practiced during that second, later, less convenient time slot for a few years - they have earned the earlier slot. Finally I urge you to keep the boys and girls together: I think the camaraderie among the team as a whole is very special, and unlike that seen in any almost any other sport. I would hate to see that disappear. I understand the goal is for the best coaching and best practice experience for everyone, but I think it would be short-sighted to sacrifice some of the clear long-time positives of the current program for the uncertain benefit of an untested schedule.
ReplyDeleteIt would certainly seem that there is an overwhelming consensus to keep the varsity girls and boys together in the first time slot. I would not disagree. However, the point made by Guy regarding his ability to coach the varsity athletes is very important. Typically the head coach of rowing focuses on the strongest boats, both girls and boys. This is true of all programs, and becomes even more polarized as we approach important qualifiers this spring. We heard this at Daranco in August and should not be surprised.
ReplyDeleteWithin a scheme where boys and girls varsity practice together, it is imperative that a plan be clearly established that allows Guy to work with both the girls and the boys. We have made nice strides in that regard this winter. That includes technical coaching on the water, as well as attention at regattas. This is not to minimize the tremendous role that Brendan plays. However, it is only fair that both the girls and boys feel like they have a strong relationship with our head coach. This is an extremely intelligent and perceptive group of young men and woman. When the above objectives are not realized, it has a negative effect on the group (girls or boys) that is less attended to.
As a parent of a high school girl who participated in the fall, it is very difficult to change my daughter's schedule. There are things beyond crew which need to be accomplished, and have specific time constraints. I would really appreciate things staying as per the fall schedule.
ReplyDeleteAs a varsity rower, I would find it very difficult to attend second-session practices. Keep in mind that the varsity rowers are on average older and therefore have more demanding class schedules...I have a lot of homework and would find it hard to keep up with if I were finishing practice at 7:30 each day. I hope the schedule will stay the same as it was in the fall. Although it is unfortunate that the later practice times might be less convenient for the novices, I believe that varsity rowers who have seniority and have given more to the program have earned the right to the more convenient practice time.
ReplyDelete